Sunday, February 24, 2013

Garrett GT28RS - GT2860RS - 62 TRIM - 360 HP - Disco Potato

The GT2860RS "Disco Potato" model 739548-1 and 739548-5 turbocharger is basically a GT28R turbo with a 62 trim compressor 0.60 A/R and a 76 trim turbine 0.86 A/R. The Disco Potato was voted top 20 New Products at SEMA 2003.

This turbocharger is an upgrade turbocharger for the GT2554R model number 471171-3 and GT2560R model 466541-1 turbine housing flanges are outline interchangeable.

This turbo has a flow capacity of about 250 - 360HP and works well for engines between 1.8L - 3.0L. Gives good spool and would be comparable to the HKS GT2530. But have the fastest spool of the turbochargers in it's category.

The Dual Ball Bearing GT2860RS turbo assembly have a T25 style turbine inlet (NOTE: without studs). It also has an internally wastegated style T25 turbine housing with actuator bracket and actuator fitted from the factory.

Now before I go any further you need to know that there are actually 3 different versions of the GT2860R turbocharger (ONLY R at the ending). This turbo is the RS version named GT2860RS, and somewhat a hybrid with a bigger compressor and of these there are 2 different RS versions 739548-1 and 739548-5. Both these are called “The Disco Potato” and the only difference between these RS versions are basically the turbine housing. So I will cover both "Disco Potato" turbos here.

It's a bit confusing yes, however don't forget to read the story behind the Disco Potato turbo and how it came to be further down after I give you the specifications.

Model: 739548-1 and 739548-5
CHRA: 446179-66

Bearing: Dual Ball bearing
Cooling: Oil & Water cooled bearings

Compressor
Inducer: 47.20 mm
Exducer: 60.1 mm
Trim: 62
A/R 0.60

Turbine Model 739548-1
Wheel: 53.90 mm
Trim: 76
A/R: 0.64
Turbine Housing PN 430609-230

Turbine Model 739548-5
Wheel: 53.90 mm
Trim: 76
A/R: 0.86
Turbine Housing PN 430609-231

Wastegated
Turbine Flange: T25 without studs
Turbine outlet: T25 flange 5-bolt pattern



Looking at the compressor map for the GT2860RS turbochargers will show you that it have a very broad range. Even if you have a low boost of 1bar it will flow 350+ hp if your engine is capable.



Here we see the two different turbine housings at work. And the bigger 0.86 A/R will give you more flow and in effect even more top end power. However it should be recomended to use the bigger one also if you have a big 3 liter engine. The ball bearings will give you exellent spool even if you don't use the smller 0.64 A/R turbine housing.

 The measurements and turbo flange drawings can be viewed in fullscreen.

The GT2860RS use the Standard T25 oil drain flange.

Oil inlet 0.4375IN - 24 Thread for 6.35 Tube Inverted flare connection PER SEA J512 Oil inlet
Oil outlet 2 x M8x1.25 13.5 oil outlet
Water connections thread M14x1.50

The Turbine wheel is cast from "Inconel" material suited for extreme applications. The Turbine housing have the traditional T25 5-bolt flange. 

This is the story behind the Disco Potato Turbocharger

The story starts with Dan Passe who, at the time, was a Nissan PR genius with a penchant for bending rules. He conveniently "lost" the paperwork for a 1.8-liter Sentra which Nissan Design International had modified for the L.A. Auto Show. The car quietly landed in the hands of Nissan engineers Steve Mitchell and Mike Kojima.

Meanwhile, a few miles away at Garrett, turbo engineer Jay Kavanagh wanted to boost his Miata. Having full access to the newest Garrett technology, he concocted a physically small turbo with a ball-bearing center section and internal aerodynamics 20 years more modern than the T3/T4 standard the aftermarket is used to.

A few cubicles from Kavanagh, Rob Cadle, a good friend of Mitchell and Kojima, realized Kavanagh's Miata turbo would be perfect for the SR20DET the Nissan boys were planning for the Sentra. He brewed up a turbo, stuffed it under his shirt, and went out the back door.

The Sentra was painted a unique combination of psychedelic, color-shifting brownish paint and was thus dubbed the Disco Potato.

Jim Wolf Technology built a very mild SR20 for the Sentra, making it functionally equivalent to a stock Japanese-spec SR20DET. The turbo was installed, and amazing things started happening. The car's power was impressive, 280 hp at the wheels, but not earth-shattering. The driving experience however, was. Throttle response was excellent, turbo lag virtually non-existent, and the tire-shredding power was easily modulated. The turbo spooled up early, making so much torque, that the best quarter-mile time (13.7 at 104.5 mph) was achieved launching in second gear.

Mitchell brought the Disco Potato to the Ultimate Street Car Challenge in 2001, and placed an impressive fourth overall. The rest of the time, the car was stashed away in Nissan USA's service garage and used strategically as an attitude adjustment tool. Whenever Nissan or Garret executives needed an injection of gasoline in their veins, they were offered the keys. They would inevitably come back grinning from ear to ear and breathing heavily, eager to bring horsepower to the masses.

During one such outing, which included a 1,000-mile road trip as well as a track day at Thunderhill Raceway, the fwd Disco Potato outran every car at the track and then blasted down the freeway at 140 mph. Several Garrett executives also experienced the Potato. They were so impressed, they decided to produce the turbo, double the engineering staff in the aftermarket department, and start applying this modern Garrett technology to a whole range of aftermarket turbos.  End of story.

Did you like the story? I sure did. A lot of people find the Disco Potato turbocharger as a very fun turbo to drive. And here is a little video of a Honda Civic B16 fitted with a GT2860RS turbocharger. I might add that this 1.6 liter engine drives and spools the GT28RS Disco Potato quite well.

Video text:

This car now has a third setup. First setup was a b16a2 N/A, second - b16a2 turbo, but burst slevees and now I will gave him a new life with the next engine, he has forged pistons and connecting rods. I'm using a turbocharger Garrett GT28RS (Disco Potato), what generating power 328,3HP and 323,3Nm with the 1bar of boost (14,5PSI).


You might want to fit this turbocharger to you're own car perhaps. Well sometimes there are a few problems, especially when using the existing turbo manifold.

Because most standard cars don't come with a turbo this big from the factory, you start to run into clearance problems.

However these problems can be solved quite easily with an simple turbocharger flang fitted as a spacer between you're standard turbo manifold and the turbo itself. Like on this Saab turbo. There was no need for grinding or further modification to make the GT28RS turbocharger fit. We can see the extra turbo flange with seals in the picture. 


I also have more technical pages for you that will come in handy. They will be of great help when looking at compressor maps Use the conversion tools And you will be able to calculate airflow, pressure and HP figures for the turbocharger you are interested in.

22 comments:

Erlissa Global said...

Hello Sir, Thank you for your kind reply regarding GT2052 previously.
I am thinking to change to GT28RS since my GT2052'output did not change after pushing to higher boost.
My car is CRZ 1.5L, manual. 2inch piping, stock internal.
Currently running 0.6 bar with 170whp, 230Nm torque with GT2052.

I am thinking to change to GT28RS to get around 200whp with stock internal.
From what I read, can achieve 200whp with this turbo even with low boost.

My only concern for current project :
1.Is GT28RS will work fine with small engine like crz 1.5L ?
2.Internal engine's strength is rely on the boost pressure(bar) or HP?
Some says CRZ internal can only hold until 0.8bar. So if I get 200whp with 0.6 bar with
GT28RS, should I be fine? >.<

Note: Planning to change the internal later for next stage to get 250whp.

JD said...

Hello Erlissa, the Garrett GT28RS turbocharger should work fine with your 1.5liter engine but make sure you get the smaller 0.64 a/r turbine housing. The GT28RS comes with both bigger and smaller turbine housings.

For your CRZ engine, it would be best to use the smaller turbine to help spool the turbo faster. It should have the part number PN 430609-230 for the correct size. You would need to be careful and start out at a low boost pressure like 0.5 bar and see how much power that gives you. I say this because the GT28RS is a much bigger turbocharger and can flow as much as 300hp with as little as 0.5 bar boost. Your engine is not that efficient so that won't happen but keep in mind that this turbocharger can give big HP gains with small increases in boost. So start low and work your way up.

Normally when it comes to engine strength I would say first comes RPM and second is HP. To keep it short and simple, a regular piston weight is around 500 grams. Because of the rotating forces when the engine is running at 7000 rpm that piston now have a weight of 3.5 Tons (500x7000) inside the engine. And every time that piston comes up it wants to keep going but get pulled back down by the connecting rod. Now if we start tuning our engine and push the revs even higher to 9000 rpm that same piston now have a weight of 4.5 Tons. Both the pistons and connecting rods live a hard life and at some point in time something starts to give.

Now if we instead look at HP alone then this is more of an compressive force pushing down the piston and connecting rod. And you really need to make some serious power to be able to compress a connecting rod and piston in such a way that with HP alone it would make something break.

Most often when something does break in an engine it's either fatigue by "lots of abuse over many years at high rpms" or a longer period of misfires / lean conditions due to poor setups or faults in the ECU that cause one or more engine parts to fail.

The problems with modern engines is that manufacturers want better fuel economy and efficient engines. And one way to make an efficient engine is to take weight of the internal parts to make them lighter.. That's good if you keep everything stock and keep the rpms and hp down but you start to run into problems with fatigue when you start pushing the engine for more power. This is most likely what's happening with the CRZ engines.

I would stay with the stock internals for the time being and try and make a safe 200whp tune with the GT28RS turbocharger. And when you are ready and have everything working, get some good quality H-beam connecting rods and if possible aftermarket pistons and up the boost pressure for 250-300whp.


Erlissa Global said...

Thank you Sir for your very details explanation!
I will share the result and probably the video once my project is done!
Thank you again Sir!You are rock!

Erlissa Global said...

Hello again Sir, today I bought this ball bearing turbo.
M24 A/R80 1-2
got a tag at the housing:
DA 01 21 J
14411-WA200
471171-6
The guy said taken out from Silvia but not sure which silvia.

URL : https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10154443153008447&set=a.10150167045193447.305914.777488446&type=3&theater

I hope u can give a rough idea about this turbo.
-target to get 200whp with stock internals n low boost(around 0.5)with this turbo.
-Later if I get bored, then I will change the internal and up the boost to get 250WHP.
Do you think it is possible to do achieve by using this turbo?
My car is CR-Z manual 1.5L(stock without turbo +-120WHP)

JD said...

Hi Erlissa, looks like you have what is called a T25G turbo. Because the turbcharger have a round inlet we can confirm two possible engines this turbo came fitted to from Nissan.

If you check inside the oil inlet / outlet and see it really is a ball bearing T25G turbo then it's possible it came from the Nissan SR20VET engine. But if it's a journal bearing T25G turbocharger then it's probably from the Nissan Avenirs SR20DET engine.

You can find these turbos in many different configurations and it's seen on many different engines.

But considering the compressor size and a good flowing engine you could see 200whp from 0.5 bar boost with this turbocharger. This also means you really won't need to bleed any air to adjust boost (makes it spool a bit faster) and run the stock wastegate connected like it's from the factory. The turbo wastegate stock spring is usually 6-7 psi and that's right around 0.5bar.

A Honda D15B 1500cc engine running stock internals made 200whp at 0.5bar boost with this T25G turbo. You would need to run higher boost around 1 bar boost to get 250whp, but like you said it's best to change the pistons and rods before doing that. 250whp is twice the power this engine was designed for.

Aaron Mojica said...

Hello whats going on , i have a 2009 acura rdx ( i think it have a td03 turbo ) and i want to know if i change the turbo for some garret , wich one are the good to put on in a rdx between gt25r or gt28rs
Thank you !

JD said...

Hi Aaron, if peak power is what you want then I would say if you can find a good deal for a Garrett GT2860RS then that's the turbocharger I would go for. However The Garrett GT2560R would also be a great turbocharger if you can get one. Both of these turbochargers are ball bearing and support 300whp.

If it's spool and low end power you are looking for instead then you have the option of the Garrett GT2854R and GT2554R turbochargers. These turbochargers can support around 250whp. All of the above turbochargers share the same T25 flange and outlet so it's pretty easy to swap between them if you like to try different ones.

Erlissa Global said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Erlissa Global said...

Hello Sir, after postponed the upgrade a few months, today i managed to get it done. I used the turbo that i bought previously(u said GT25) and upgraded to 2.5 inch piping. tuned with emanage ultimate and the result is 202whp and 26.7Nm torque with 0.55bar. Will keep this setup until the next project to change the internal parts and push more. Here is the result for now :
https://www.facebook.com/plugins/post.php?href=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fifan9701%2Fposts%2F10155034855533447

Thank you so much for your kind advices! :)

JD said...

Hi Erlissa, thanks for letting me know, that's nice to hear. Your Honda D15B 1500cc engine made very good power with that GT25 turbo, and the power keeps going all the way to 7000rpm also. I'm sure later if you change the rods and pistons and turn the boost up to 1bar you might even make over 250whp with this setup.

Erlissa Global said...

its the CR-Z sir.hehe!tuner also said the same. the GT25 still can be push more just need the internal parts upgraded.thanks alot!

Adrian Rankiewicz said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Adrian Rankiewicz said...

http://pl.tinypic.com/view.php?pic=1zvr680&s=9#.WTkKd2ndjqA

Adrian Rankiewicz said...

http://pl.tinypic.com/view.php?pic=r79es8&s=9#.WTkLlmndjqA

Adrian Rankiewicz said...

http://pl.tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2i8x8cz&s=9#.WTkPGGndjqA

Adrian Rankiewicz said...

I have civic d16z6 345km 375nm
I just curious if this turbo can give me obout 400hp ?

Adrian Rankiewicz said...

Can you tell me what this turbo is? Gt28rs ?

JD said...

Hello Adrian, looks like it's a Garrett GT2540 Turbocharger. Would be good for around 250hp. You would need something like the Garrett GT3071r to get 400hp. The GT2860R gives you close to 360hp but to see 400hp you need something in the GT30 range.

Adrian Rankiewicz said...

Yes on plate is gt25 40 but it looks like someone upgraded putting hks trim
That turbo from picture run 1.3bar boost an give me 345km so max range is 360km ? I will put 1.5bar an we will see what happens

JD said...

Hi Adrian, hard to say if 360 is possible. The turbo should be able to do 1.5bar no problems so you would be safe to try and see if it makes more power.

Exige Pilot said...

Hi. I bought a Lotus Exige, which has a GT2860, forged 2ZZ motor, but struggling to make 280whp. Tuning the 2nd cam "lift " was impossible with the stage 2 cams in it, so the workshop I was dealing with put standard cams back in, which lifted power from 250 hp at the wheels to 280 hp at the wheels at 17 psi and lift worked again. It still felt like the top end was struggling, low end spool insane though. Anyway, a recent blown turbo inlet gasket had me checking things out closer. For some reason ( stupidity ? ) the guy who screwed this engine together chose the .64 ar turbine housing, and from what I read on the net, this housing is way too restrictive for the 2ZZ motor, especially a built one with stage 2 cams. Before I change this housing out and retune, can you confirm that this is what would be holding my motor back. In reality, I'd be happy with around 320 hp at the wheels, but staying within the efficiency of the turbo.

JD said...

Hello Exige Pilot, if there is nothing after the turbo like a restrictive exhaust system.. Check for collapsed / clogged muffler or failed catalytic converter etc.. Then it could very well be the exhaust housing that is causing you problems.

If you really want to max out the GT2860r turbo then your only option is to get the 0.86 A/R housing anyway with the loss of some low end spool.

However before you change anything I would advice you to check the turbo back pressure (pressure before the turbo in the exhaust manifold). This would tell if it really is a problem with the housing being to small.

If you have an aftermarket ECU or logger that can handle extra input then there are back pressure kits to install www.ipgparts.com/store/Race-Spec-Exhaust-Manifold-Back-Pressure-Kit.html

If not then you can use a simple oil pressure, or boost gauge (really any gauge that reads pressure works) and connect it to the exhaust manifold with a coiled copper pipe, this cools the gases to not damage the gauge.

Here's a good discussion with pictures on Miataturbo.net - MSM Exhaust Manifold Pressure Test
https://www.miataturbo.net/diy-turbo-discussion-14/msm-exhaust-manifold-pressure-test-85795/

Youtube video from the link showing everything is working right, 30psi boost and 20psi back pressure indicates the exhaust housing is not restricting power.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=59yJITZspOQ

If you are seeing 17 psi boost and close to 17 psi back pressure then that would confirm your exhaust housing being to small and it is restricting flow on the top end.

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Good books on Turbocharging and High Power Engine Tuning

Turbo: Real-World High-Performance Turbocharger Systems (S-A Design) Turbochargers HP49 (HP Books): Turbo Design, Sizing & Matching, Spark-Ignition & Diesel Engine Applications, Water Injection, Controls, Carburetion, Intercooling, ... Street & Race Cars, Boats, Motorc Maximum Boost: Designing, Testing, and Installing Turbocharger Systems (Engineering and Performance) Turbocharging Performance Handbook (Motorbooks Workshop) Street TurbochargingHP1488: Design, Fabrication, Installation, and Tuning of High-Performance Street Turbocharger Systems How to Select and Install Turbochargers Supercharging, Turbocharging and Nitrous Oxide Performance (Motorbooks Workshop) How To Supercharge & Turbocharge GM LS-Series Engines (SA Design) Turbochargers (Technical Description and Discussion) Motorcycle Turbocharging, Supercharging, & Nitrous Oxide: A Complete Guide to Forced Induction and its use on Modern Motorcycle Engines Smokey Yunick's Power Secrets Troubleshooting and Repair of Diesel Engines Engine Management: Advanced Tuning Four-Stroke Performance Tuning 3rd ed: A practical guide Two-Stroke Performance Tuning Dyno Testing and Tuning Forced Induction Performance Tuning A Practical Guide to Supercharging and Turbocharging Volkswagen Sport Tuning for Street and Competition: Getting the Best Performance from Your Water-Cooled Volkswagen (Engineering and Performance) Fuel Injection: Installation, Performance Tuning, Modification (Motorbooks International Powerpro) Engine Management: Optimizing Modern Fuel and Ignition Systems (Haynes High-Performance Tuning Series) Two-Stroke Performance Tuning in Theory and Practice Motorcycle Tuning for Performance Building & Tuning High-Performance Electronic Fuel Injection Modern Engine Tuning The Design and Tuning of Competition Engines How to Tune and Modify Engine Management Systems (Motorbooks Workshop) Engine Builder's Handbook Secrets of Speed: Today's Techniques for 4-Stroke Engine Blueprinting & Tuning (Speedpro) Street Rotary HP1549: How to Build Maximum Horsepower & Reliability into Mazda's 12a, 13b & Renesis Engines Xtreme Honda B-Series Engines HP1552: Dyno-Tested Performance Parts Combos, Supercharging, Turbocharging and NitrousOxide--Includes B16A1/2/3 (Civic, Del Sol), B17A (GSR), B18C (GSR), B18C How to Build High-Performance Chevy LS1/LS6 V-8s: Modifying and Tuning Gen III Engines for GM Cars & Pickups (S-A Design) The sports car engine,: Its tuning and modification Tuning Rover V-8 Engines: How to Get Best Performance for Road and Competition Use High-Performance Subaru Builder's Guide: Includes the Impreza, Legacy, Forester, Outback, WRX and STI (S-A Design) Honda/Acura Engine Performance John Lingenfelter on Modifying SB Chevy Engines How to Build, Modify & Power Tune Cylinder Heads Racing Engine Builder's Handbook: How to Build Winning Drag, Circle Track, Marine and Road RacingEngines High-Performance Diesel Builder's Guide (S-A Design) The SU Carburettor High-Performance Manual (Speedpro) Weber Carburetor Manual: Including Zenith, Stromberg and SU Carburetors (Haynes Manuals) Rebuilding and Tuning Fords Kent Crossflow Engine Weber Carburetors (HP Books 774) How to Build Max-Performance Mitsubishi 4G63t Engines (S-A Design) (Performance How-To) Stock Car Racing Engine TechnologyHP1506: Advanced Engine Theory and Design for All Levels of Circle Track Racing Building Honda K-Series Engine Performance (Cartech) Ford Tuning Secrets Revealed (Secrets Revealed series) Ford Sohc pinto & sierra cosworth dohc engines high - performance manual How to Build & Power Tune Weber & Dellorto DCOE & DHLA Carburettors (Speedpro) How to Rebuild and Modify Carter/Edelbrock Carburetors: Performance, Street, and Off-Road Applications Flathead Tuning Manual Hot Rod Horsepower Handbook (Motorbooks Workshop)

Folks don't forget about racing safety gear when buying auto racing parts

I have been tuning engines for a long time and with that experience I tend to look a bit more at how other people tune their cars and bikes than anyone else. Now this is not true for everyone, but most of you will recognize yourself at some level.

About 25 years ago the level of tuning an ordinary street car would ever see was at most 30% increase in power. (Not true for every car out there, but I'm talking ordinary street cars here)

So if you had an Ford, Volvo or BMW the amount of power you could get would have been in the 150hp range and in some extreme cases 250hp. At this point this was the "limit" of ordinary naturally aspirated engines at that time. Yes there was a lot of racing going on at that time, and some of these race engines did get put into street cars and power levels would have been 300+ hp. But the amount of maintenance these race engines required and the cost to keep them running were too much for most people.

Back then you could not just go into a racing store and buy yourself a set of forged pistons and connecting rods. Let alone camshafts and valves to build your race engine.

With the introduction of turbochargers however the power suddenly increased to levels that are still uncommon in today’s cars. At the beginning people where not really sure how to tune turbo engines and intercoolers where something that most people had never heard of. Silicone hoses where did you get that? And real drag tires where not that common either.

But as time passed by, engine tuners got their hands on more parts and knowledge and the tuning business took of.

Now it still took some time before engine management systems where you could really start to extract power out of engines became common. And if you found someone who could tune these you would have to fork out serious doe to get everything working.

Along came chip tuning and turbo engines. What was unheard of just 20 years ago would now become a reality for anyone with a few minutes of tuning. Some of you might know the story of the Ford RS Cosworth, Nissan Skyline, Audi S1 Quattro, Lancia S4 to name a few and other icons of the late 1980 and early 1990. The turbo engines back then would give you 200hp and that is still today 25 years on about the same power level you would get from a new car. However today this is a common power figure for a station wagon. And back in the 80s only a few racing breed turbo engines would give you that.

But with a few changes to the ECU with chip tuning and some larger fuel injectors all that was needed then was to turn up the boost pressure and 350hp where unleashed. The only real limit here was only how much air the standard turbocharger could supply.

Sure there where different levels of basic tuning you could do but the effect was the same, more power.

With more and more tuner friendly cars coming out over the years the power figures are still holding almost the same. But what have changed today is the huge amount of DIY tuners out there. What engine tuners did 25 years ago have now entered the garage and racing parts have now become widely available to anyone. From the cheap Chinese made turbo exhaust manifolds to wastegates and almost every tuning part you can think of to the pure racing parts like forged pistons and engine management systems on sale that anyone can buy.

So what has happened is anyone with a little background in mechanics can now build their own race engine. Power levels have just gone up and up and up.. It’s not uncommon to see street cars today with 500hp and then there are the ones who have gone even higher, breaking the 1000hp barrier.

The one thing that all these engines have in common to achieve such power levels are of course the turbocharger. Without the turbo it would not have been possible. Well I’m sure a supercharger could do the job too but that’s another story.

However time and time again people forget the most important parts when tuning cars. I’m talking about safety and racing safety gear. I do see that people buy racing seats and that’s good. But most of the time they don’t buy racing seats because of the added safety. It’s because they think racing seats look good. And what about things like auto racing helmets that keeps your head intact. Most of the time people come to the track without real racing helmets and if it’s street racing that’s taking place, no one seems to bother wearing any kind of racing helmets at all.

I do understand that people feel protected inside their car and they don’t think they need roll cages and in some cases opt for roll bars instead but you really need to think about this.

Some of the racing safety gear you should look at are the following:
racing suit
racing shoes
racing helmets
racing gloves

In case you don’t have a fuel cell in your car and there is a chance of fire or fuel leak then you should consider racing fire suits also because these will save your life. Fire is not to be taken lightly. If you have a good fuel system in place to feed your engine and anyone who are looking for power is going to have that. Then you need to understand that at any given time those racing fuel pumps are pumping 2 gallons of fuel every minute. And if you get a leak and have an accident you are in real trouble if the power to the pumps are not cut right away.

So having the right racing safety gear to protect you is always a good choice. Today’s car are much safer than the ones years ago, but you need to understand that when we double and triple the amount of power and turn our 100mph car into a 200mph fire spitting monster of a car you really, really should spend some time and pick out some racing safety gear also.